Talk:Creation Ex Xeno (3.5e Feat)

I usually suck at balancing, so here's a question

Is this overpowered? I know that any given Xeno could use it to make money, but aside from that, is it beyond most feats? I did some math, and my first draft of it was insane(you used GP instead of SP on the craft checks, resulting in being able to make a masterwork item or even powerful weapons in a instant), but I think it's somewhat balanced now. I could be very wrong, though, but then again, with the wish economy, this feels rather minor, since you can't make a magic item. But it can make a catapult and a few shots if you spend enough. That's another thing, does the 5GP per Bio-Energy spent seem balanced? Maybe more per point? And the Bio-Energy Drain multiplier effect, too much, maybe? In any case, I wish for input, since this is a feat I wish to see used by more then just me.--YX33A 19:57, 18 January 2011 (UTC)

So as it is, an ordinary CON 18 character can make 180 GP (160 GP by spending 4 points and draining 3, then 20 GP by spending 1 point and draining 3) of stuff each hour? That's very good for a level 1 character; it probably stops being good at about level 5 or so. A level 12 character with Increased Biocapacity to boost their Bio-Energy pool and 26 Constitution will be able to make 93600 GP (81920 GP by spending 12 points and draining 3, then 10240 GP by spending 9 points and draining 3, then 1280 GP by spending 6 points and draining 3, then 160 GP by spending 3 points and draining 3) of stuff each hour, which is still quite good, but not ridiculously excessive because it's just nonmagical stuff. Unless you meant that the Drain doubling would be on top of the normal doubling, in which case you should multiply the aforementioned numbers by 8, which would make this into quite the impressive tactic.

Of course, because you use SP instead of GP on the craft checks, this isn't going to be much of an ability for getting crafted items when you need them; most of the time, you'll probably try to just mass-produce raw materials to solve problems with. After all, you can make at least 320 pounds of copper as a full-round action at level 1: imagine how much you could create if you went for something cheaper.

Wizard-level feats are supposed to be pretty nuts, and I think this one fits. If you don't want things to get quite this out of hand, though, I'd probably suggest reducing it to 1 GP instead of 5 GP, and make crafting much faster. Also, you might want to consider a weight limit: although it's funny, a level 12 alien that squirts out 93 tons of copper per hour is not something one generally considers to be "believable". --Foxwarrior 03:35, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Lets start by noting that at you don't regain bio-energy drain all at once, per hour, so no, you can't do most of your examples under any circumstance. And the material would vanish quick enough that you wouldn't be able to make that much money at all. Second, you must pay 3 Bio-energy drain to make it last forever, which is on top of all other points spent.

If you want to make a point, read up on the material first. You seem to be always looking for ways to make a shit ton of cash in the game, anyway, so, no offense, but you aren't exactly who I look to when I want help. Eiji, Franken Kessey, someone who is working on Complete Xeno stuff.

Or at least someone who seems serious in what they make. Though you did point out one mistake I made: I forgot to mention that the matter is obviously alien in nature, or at least not standard iron or copper.--YX33A 03:54, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Oh, right, the money focus of your comment reminded me that I made a mistake on the raw material worth. I sometimes type what I'm thinking, even though what I'm typing has not caught up with my speed of thought. Hence the double value with Bio-Energy, and with bio-energy drain, which was supposed to just be bio-energy drain which doubles the value.--YX33A 04:15, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

The Bio-Energy page has just this to say on the mechanics of recovering for Bio-Energy Drain: "Bio energy drain can be restored through one or more hours of uninterrupted rest." Nothing about that implies that it would take more than 1 hour to recover all 15 points.

All of my examples involved taking 3 Bio-energy drain to make it last forever. Did you mean to say that points of Bio-Energy Drain beyond the first 3 doubled the value? In that case, and with your slow interpretation of Bio-Energy recovery, the level 12 example character would spend 2 bio-energy points for 10 gp, drain 3 to make it permanent, and drain 10 to double it 10 times, for a total of 10240 gp every 13 hours. Still not completely worthless. --Foxwarrior 08:08, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

If you had read the talk page, you would realize that you recover bio-energy drain at a rate of one drain per hour of rest.

I'll be blunt here: I don't care for your input here, because you have a track record of finding get rich quick schemes with my stuff.

And for the record, 26 in ANY stat is ungodly good for any character. Find a way to get that high of a con score at ECL 12 and be Xenotheric, and I'll think about amending my data based on your findings.--YX33A 15:43, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Start with 18. Use your Wishes to get a +5 inherent bonus. Put a +1 into it from leveling up. Get an item so cheap there is no question that you can have it. As you can see, 26 is very much on the low end. --Foxwarrior 18:12, 19 January 2011 (UTC)