Talk:Buzzing Fly (3.5e Maneuver)

Unfriendly Fire

"All (including allies) who attempt to cast a spell, manifest a power, or do anything else that requires concentration anywhere within 50 feet of you or a space that you pass through during this round are heavily disturbed by the inane sounds that you make while running about. Therefore, they must succeed on a Concentration check (DC = 15 + your initiator level + your Int modifier + the spell level of the spell being cast or power being manifested (if applicable) + ½ the total number of spaces you have moved during this maneuver + the total number of attacks of opportunity attempted on you during this maneuver). Failing on this Concentration check causes the action to fail and be wasted - the spell or power is lost." Can't say I'm exactly a fan of maneuvers that encourage other players to hurt you IRL.Fluffykittens (talk) 22:25, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Considering how the maneuver works (you make a lot of inane noises), there's really no way to exclude allies from the effect. --Luigifan18 (talk) 00:04, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

No, I think he's complaining that it gets harder to make the concentration checks if you suffer AoOs. Which you can do by walking past your friends and provoking from them, thus encouraging them to hurt you. It's also a bunch of really fiddly little bits that don't really boost the DC that much. You could remove the last two modifiers and boost the base DC slightly without changing things much (and getting points for simplicity and ease of use). - Tarkisflux ^Talk 00:17, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

...You never provoke attacks of opportunity from allies. Do I really have to say that? I thought it was implied via the overarching rules of the game. (And I thought he was saying that he doesn't like abilities that encourage your fellow players to hurt you instead of your character.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 02:15, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Unless I'm grievously mistaken, nothing in the rules puts any restriction on who you consider an ally and who you consider an enemy, Luigifan18. --Foxwarrior (talk) 02:57, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

(And I thought he was saying that he doesn't like abilities that encourage your fellow players to hurt you instead of your character.) That's what I was saying. In, silly, lighthearted games where balance doesn't matter, friendly fire is an amusement of sorts, and not actively destructive to the game. In a more serious game, the huge areas of spellcasting disruption make this maneuver not very team friendly, especially since you're a martial class, forcing the spellcasters to stay away from your character. This is bad for the same reasons Give One to the Team (3.5e Feat) is.Fluffykittens (talk) 03:09, 12 November 2012 (UTC)

Yes, I had a reading fail with Fluffykittens' comments it seems, sorry about that. The point about provoking stands though; allies normally just don't take them. But there's nothing stopping them from making unarmed attacks at you with their feet (which would miss) when you provoke them while using this ability, and they are encouraged to do so if they have AoOs to spare. Potential friendly DC stacking abuse aside, I don't think the DC boosted based on distance and AoOs triggered is worth the extra calculation steps. Just raise the base DC by 10 (3 per 30 base move, times 3, plus 1 for an AoO) or more and lose a paragraph or two. If you want to keep the "go provoke" aspect of the maneuver, you could drop the radius and have the penalty only apply to those targets that you provoke AoOs from. Then you still have large moves and you still want to go make people swing at you while you're using this, but you don't make your friends hate you and you don't have extra (and largely meaningless) calculation steps. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 05:51, 12 November 2012 (UTC)