Talk:Overland Rush (3.5e Feat)

Paging Sonic the Hedgehog...

Overland speed multiplied by 100. Oh boy. Considering that the average human can move 30 feet in a single move action, or 60 feet in a double move action (so, 60 feet in 6 seconds if moving at a decently fast pace), 120 feet as a full-round action when running (so that's 120 feet in 6 seconds)... So, a running human moves at 1,200 feet in a minute, which would work out to 72,000 feet in an hour if a human could run for that long without ever slowing down, which is equal to 13.6363-repeating miles per hour. The math works out: it's been established that a human can run this fast in real life. With the Run feat giving a ×5 multiplier to base move speed when running (rather than the default ×4), that's 150 feet in 6 seconds, working out to 1,500 feet per minute, working out to 90,000 feet per hour, equal to 17.04545-repeating miles per hour. Again, well-trained runners in real life can run this fast.

Now, if we multiply the default feet per hour by 100, we have a character running at a rate of 7,200,000 feet per hour (9,000,000 feet per hour with the Run feat), which is equal to 1363.6363-repeating miles per hour without the Run feat, or 1704.5454-repeating miles per hour with the Run feat. The former value is nearly Mach 2. The latter value is nearly Mach 3. Throw in increases to base speed, like the sort the barbarian or the monk get, and it just gets more insane from there. An epic-level monk might be able to break the speed of light, which should not be physically possible.

Welp. Now I finally know how to make Sonic the Hedgehog in Dungeons and Dragons without making him feel far slower than he should. Actually, he might even be too fast. All with just one feat.

Is that really what you wanted? --Luigifan18 (talk) 20:04, 23 November 2017 (MST)

Overland speed actually has a table. For the 30 ft human, it's 3 mph. At x100, it's 300 mph, though since you can do it non-stop you can cover x3 distance (just not x3 speed). That, and fluff-wise it's not just speed, but a combination of shortcuts, speed, and luck. At that level, you can wander into another plane at that point, so you're probably doing "Half A Press" nonsense to move at that point. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 23:05, 23 November 2017 (MST)

That table accounts for the fact that people cannot run full-tilt for literally hours at a time — something that a character with this feat can do easily. It would therefore need to be adjusted. --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:03, 24 November 2017 (MST)

Running is a different source of fatigue and exhaustion than travel - one that people with this feat wouldn't be immune to. --Undead_Knave (talk) 01:11, 24 November 2017 (MST)

This really doesn't feel moderate. Moderate feats tend to somewhat tune a character's existing abilities to be more useful, not completely add an entire field of expertise like nonmagical teleportation. --Foxwarrior (talk) 18:27, 24 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm with Fox on this one, the scope of this feat sits more on High balance, despite being nicher than anything that affects combat/magic. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 08:24, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I really disagree. This is literally just overland travel. Sure, you get ridiculous speeds, but you're basically "traveling by map/montage." Now, if you want to talk about tone problems, fine, that's subjective, and not everyone wants to play D&D like muppets (I question why you're playing a game about heavily armed goons getting into shenanigans, but hey, not my place). But if "I make overland travel take less time" is too powerful for your game, I do genuinely question how you're running a game where that matters. ValravenApocalypse (talk) 23:06, 1 November 2024 (UTC)

I think the problem lies in the fact that the feat is abusable up to a point that it could: a) create chaos in a group when one or more players use it to do shenaningans in a way so that it disrupts the game flow; b) make overland travel completely trivial.

The first point is dangerous when overland travel would be completely overlooked but the pc with this feat forces the game to account for it in such a way that it directly impacts the game, either in its plot or balance.

For the second it is because when overland travel is important this completely negate it, and that wouldn't be good, because, again it directly impactes the game.

I like the travel planes effect, but I just think the highly-scaling quickness in travel and the low-level immunity to any fatigue due to travelling are too low and too fast, and just should add less or less frequently to make the feat better. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 00:29, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Well, taking another look at the feat for specifics (I've mostly looked at the parts that are relevant to me currently, ie, what my level 3 character gets), I think it would be reasonable to reduce the multipliers at 14 and 19 ranks. But also, at 11th level and up, overland is already trivialized with things like teleport and flying mounts. ValravenApocalypse (talk) 02:25, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

(Reset Indent) FYI I am aware of the discourse and intentionally staying to the side to let it proceed, but just as my one word in: seems like a lot of it could just be fixed by adjusting the curve of how the speed gathers. Make it x2, x3, x5, x50, x100 maybe (cause as others mentioned, at that point your travel times should be 6 seconds anyway). What say you? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 13:45, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

At Moderate balance I don't think walking at 50x speed ever really makes sense. If you need it to scale (a thing I'm not convinced is appropriate for Moderate balance feats in general, usually Moderate balance feats are expected to be in a feat tree if they scale, it's a sad life but that's just what being weak is like), then why not posit like, some kind of concretely teleportation-based shortcut because I'm finding it really hard to visualize how someone goes 100x faster than just following the road without some kind of super-speed. --Foxwarrior (talk) 17:37, 2 November 2024 (UTC)

Since the overland travel table is still tied to tactical speed, I say that the scaling could happen at the rate of +1/2/3 miles and so on, and it could end when your speed is effectively doubled (so for a Medium character, it would get 6 miles of walk speed in overland travel - I'm taling for hours, it should be obviously adjusted for day-long travel). Consider that multiplier are already added with hustling and running, and those make you very fast. And I would move the immunity to fatigue up, as well as the ability to share your improved speed. Maybe it could get the ability to run in overland travel?. --The bluez in the dungeon (talk) 18:54, 2 November 2024 (UTC)