Talk:Zen Monk (3.5e Class)

Ratings

	Kostababic favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	Awesome but his AC bonus is a little too high

	Idlem is neutral on this article and rated it 2 of 4.
	There are too many attacks. Two more than a monk which already has plenty. And you gain the most powerful class feature ever seen 8 levels earlier. The only class feature that would allow you to beat Pun-Pun if he was mindless. Edit : Changed it for the reasons below.

The Most Powerful Feature

Not sure which class feature you're referring to. -- Eiji-kun 19:49, 6 August 2012 (UTC)

Tongue of the Sun and Moon. The only thing that allows you to use Diplomacy (the ultimate skill) on anything living. This effectively mean a 9th level diplomancer Zen Monk can beat Pun-Pun, not least. The diplomat monk was already an issue, but not too far before taking the Polyglot feat.--Idlem 02:47, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Pfft.... r-really? R....really? I.... Uh....

Tongues is now able to beat Pun-Pun. Do you see why I see why that particular comment is fantastically comical to me? -- Eiji-kun 02:58, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

"Diplomacy is a broken skill. Every class can use it. Therefore, every class is broken." <-- That is the potential logic that means we generally do not consider the Diplomacy skill in considering a class's balance. It's really not fair to say the class is broken on the basis of having access to that skill. Besides, Pun-Pun already speaks every language, so it's not like he was immune to Diplomacy before this ability. --DanielDraco 03:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Expounding a bit on the rest, namely the number of attacks. I took a cue from the Pathfinder monk, giving it attacks suitable to a full BAB, though not a carbon copy and arguably worse since the BAB is kept the same, I just give the extra attacks (PF monks actually are hitting at +20 at 20th in flurries). The end result is your usual 15/10/5, and then four more attacks at your highest BAB. Since monks hitting often was never a big concern, giving them more chances to hit seems like a good move to me. They don't call it "flurry of misses" for nothing. -- Eiji-kun 04:06, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

In my incredibly humble opinion, the SRD Monk was supposed to be (partially) about whizzing around, pummeling people repeatedly, and generally being fast. The thing that prevents the SRD Monk from actually doing this is more that they can only flurry on a full attack than that they don't get enough attacks. --Foxwarrior 17:38, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

Changed the rating (I'm convinced by these comments). This class is not as good as it may be, however. Dragon Rage is weak, especially compared to Rabbit Sprint (which gives you a feat for a round). Go look at the Strike of Perfect Clarity maneuver ; actually, you have a chance to deal a little more damage if you expend all your ki points and have a high wisdom... once a day, which is far less than the warblade.

You may consider a modification of Combat Mastery, more multiclassing friendly (bonuses that would offset the lower BAB). You removed multiclassing restrictions, after all! As a side note, All Sense may scale between the 10th and 20th level.--Idlem 03:53, 13 August 2012 (UTC)