Talk:Deeka (3.5e Race)

+1 la?

this is more like a +1 la in my eyes. immunity to things, double starting gold (?)needs just a little nerfing--NameViolation 03:14, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

LA+1??? Really? I mean, really? Alright, whatever, let's do the breakdown. Ability score adjustments: They equal out to 0, with no bonus or penalty greater than a difference of two. Basic LA0 race thing. Next. Humanoid, medium, standard land speed of 30, all LA0 common things. Next. Double Starting gold: This is an odd ability, I admit. Fun for 1st level characters, as it may net them like, at most an extra 150 gp, if they are of a choice few melee classes (100 for their favored class). Starting gold is of course, Level 1 starting gold. Level 5 Character Wealth by Level obviously isn't starting gold (even if the character began play at that level), so he's not getting extra thousands of golds. That said, Character Wealth by Level removes this bonus completely (as the DM balances out treasure among the group, its part of his job). Even if he didn't, that extra little boost is nothing compared to the hordes of gold characters begin gaining very quickly. Heck, Wealth by Level is high enough at level two where the extra boost of being able to buy a horse and saddle or a couple potions more than everyone else is miniscule. Moving on. Immunity to dazzling and blindness... which, I've never even been part of a group that even had magical blindness happen. Not saying it doesn't happen, its just so rare, that the bonus is slight. Same with dazzling, only a few spells even cause it, and mostly low level ones anyhow. Likely this power won't even come up in game. Next. A bonus to Jump is always welcome. Knowledge (architecture) and Perform (singing), also not very likely, and at three abilities with +2, its like what elves get, but not with skills you are going to use all the time, also, elves detect secret doors. Oh, and they get a weakness too! Which, if you've ever had your characters moving around at night, ever, in any game of DnD, you know this will come up. Next. They get 3 spell like abilities to cause light... as they gain HD... yeah, that's nothin' to write home about. Sure, illumination is good, but it can be gained with sunrods, lanterns, torches, wands, everburning torches, all early, all very cheap. Next. Two base languages, that's standard. Favored class of bard. Does anyone even use favored class anymore? If so, yeah, that shouldn't pose a problem.

In conclusion, its probably around midrange for solid LA 0 races. Its not strong, not by a longshot. Anyone else care to weigh in? --Ganteka Future 04:04, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I resent the "only a few spells cause dazzled" thing, mainly because I made a spell with it, not because it isn't true.--ThirdEmperor 06:39, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

I actually like the dazzled condition. Its a great little penalty, and fun to roleplay too. A classic "oh gods! My eyes!" never fails to entertain. --Ganteka Future 07:00, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

ok i looked again. not a +1 but what about spacing the spell likes a little more? like at 1, 4 and 8? just seems a little rushed. overall its compairable to other +0 races. just feels like it needs a slight tweek somehow...--NameViolation 07:45, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

Well, interesting story time: Way back when I first got into D&D in 2001 when 3.0e had come out, I was big into the idea of trying to run my own setting, with my own races and monsters and other fancy custom rules. Well, I'm still sorta workin' on all that. However, as the Lord of the Rings movies were coming out, I set to distance myself from the classics of dwarves and elves, for they had been already done. So, after brainstorming, I had come up with some races that would fit into this semi-tropical world of great vast wilderness and isolation amongst the races. From that project, over the years, and with refinement, 3 core races were produced, durzites, malaquians and deeka. Deeka were conceptualized as "folk of the sun" and were originally clear skinned with clear tissues with white blood and a few pale orange stripes on their skin in a few places. This idea was dropped as it was a bit unsettling to imagine what was basically one of those "The Visible Man" things walking around. Plus, they were a pain to try and draw, and didn't attract many of my players.

So, history lesson aside, as part of their racial flavor abilities, deeka were given the power to manifest light as they gained in power (HD). In 3.0e, daylight was a 2nd level spell, just like darkness. However, in the upgrade to 3.5e, daylight became a 3rd level spell, despite not actually being improved upon in any way to justify that power gain. Looking at some other 3rd level spells, it can't stack up at all in comparison. Its a weak spell. It appears that the only reason that it was bumped up was because of the addition of the blacklight spell to be its level-equivalent counter. Since countering blacklight with an equal or higher level equivalent light spell is necessary, and the soonest possible available core-books light spell after daylight is sunbeam at 7th spell level, it was basically the only option, short of writing a new spell. So, daylight got the job and became weak for its level.

As for race design, since this is a race built around its love of light, and its powers should be useful, it was kept that they would still gain the ability to cast daylight once a day at 3rd HD, and has since, never caused a problem that I am aware of in any game I have run, and none have been reported to me in the year and a half that it has been available online. Do I think it needs tweaking? No. They gain the powers when they are useful, and even then, they are much less useful than other spells of their level. They are mostly flavor, but, they still need to see some action for characters to feel they got their bang for their buck as playing a member of the race. As a mid-range power for LA0 race, with non-specific class feel, gimping them would be ill-advised. --Ganteka Future 01:15, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

I must amend my statement a bit, for I forgot all about deeper darkness as a 3rd level spell (as another reason for having daylight needing to be boosted)! Doesn't make daylight worth its slot, but it is another reason that it was boosted. --Ganteka Future 02:14, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Dude, chill on the walls of text. One comment throws you into a frenzy? wtf? anyway yes i see the overly long point you make, i personally think tone back the levels that they get the abilities at just to keep those things a challenge for an extra level or 2. This way the enemys can use the tactic once or twice and the player has a little more look forward to--NameViolation 02:46, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Frenzy? Nah, just trying to be thorough, and kinda went rambling. It happens. I'll be shorter this time. Anyways, challenge for the enemies? Deeka can be NPCs or PCs. Any challenge generated by being able to make light/counter darkness goes both ways. As for that challenge though, illumination power is openly available. You a caster?... light is a 0 level spell. Not a caster?...get a sunrod for 2 gp. Need that continual flame earlier than 5th level (for a deeka or any divine caster anyways, arcane casters get it as a 2nd level spell)?...buy an everburning torch for 110 gp, and any character will have the money for that at 2nd level (or just steal one from a dungeon). The one spell not so easily emulated by others is daylight, which, if the deeka get the ability to counter higher level darkness sooner than expected for a character, but still only limited to a small time frame of his career, that's fine. Its what the race is, and some racial benefits for any race often become less useful later on. So, if you don't believe me that it's balanced, that's fine, I'm probably not going to convince you with more talking. --Ganteka Future 04:08, November 26, 2009 (UTC)