Talk:Fallen (3.5e Variant Rule)

So...

At first I was all like, "Hey, this doesn't look all that bad..."
But then I got to how it actually works and I facepalmed. --Ghostwheel 01:19, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Where do the mechanic break down?--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 01:32, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

1. Saves will always be outpaced by damage. You'll always fail against any sort of decent character.
2. Recovering sucks. It means that people have to wait or abandon or someone has to wander off to play SSB while waiting.
3. These rules still don't allow one to do anything interesting while dying.
4. There's still nothing interesting while waiting to die--you know how long it'll take you, and that's it.
5. Even if you're stable, that doesn't let you continue participating in a fight
6. Rounds while "fallen" have been reduced to doing very little. Even if it's limited options, let the player do something on their turn.
7. Just outlawing ressurection spells does very little to nothing to actually fix them.
8. Still has the possibility of player death, which isn't a good thing due to the fact that it A. removes a person temporarily from the game, B. often has a bad impact upon the story, C. causes people not to invest as much in their characters, and more. If characters need to die, they should do so due to story purposes, not because of some random roll of the dice.
9. Continues to require a cleric or something similar to actually get people up and going, rather than letting anyone help their companions up.

Those are just a few of the things. --Ghostwheel 02:02, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

1. Ligitimate problem that needs fixing. On it.
2. Recovery is supposed to suck- losing sucks and has sucky consequences. There are options to speed up recovery, but in hind sight not enough of them are mundane. On that problem.

3,4,5 and 6 are the same complaint and all miss the point of this rule entirely. Ignored with prejudice.

7. Not oulawed and not intended to be fixed, just their use- revive an ally FF style. Their is a limited time in which you can do so (note how the average human while Stable lasts just long enough for Raise to work?) and if you miss your window, it's gone. Actions will not be taken.

8. Death needs to be a threat. Without the threat of death, you are playing the "everybody wins" game, which gets dull fast. On top of that, expanded death and dying to a point where death is a result of team mate negligence, or will be once saves are fixed. (See 1) Surviving is simple- fight smart and don't piss off your friends in case things go wrong.

9. Again, legitimate problem, but probably not for the reasons you want it to be. I want Heal checks to be on equal footing with magic and interconnected- one can be used without the other, but it is stronger to use both. On it.

With that, I'm off to fix it.--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 03:29, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Oh, and while this is up, would this page be a good place to sneak in some other Heal skill options?--Change=Chaos. Period. SC 04:02, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

Ratings

	DanielDraco likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	The Fort DC calculation is a little overcomplicated. Why is it counting dice instead of damage? Other than that, this is actually not a bad rule. It makes recovery trivial if you can get them to a healer in a safe location, but falling in the middle of an adventure is still a major problem.

	Aarnott is neutral on this article and rated it 2 of 4.
	Meh. It doesn't seem to do anything to actually improve the game in that you are trading off some issues with a resurrection-happy world with issues of actually out-of-game players not being able to participate for a few sessions while they recover. The first option is lame, but at least it is more fun.