User talk:Tarkisflux/MultiFeat (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

	TheDarkWad opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	What everyone else said.

	Fluffykittens opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	This is just a mass feat giveaway. If you want to give out more feats, than do so. If you want to combine weaker feats, than do so. Let's not even get into the insanity that happens when you involve scaling feats, and other h to vh homebrew.

Yeah... scaling feats weren't intended to go with this at all. That was the intent of this line "Any feat that grants multiple abilities based on your current level, base attack bonus, skill ranks, or other numeric value is ineligible to gain as part of a MultiFeat." Since that's unclear, I'll reword if this doesn't wind up moved out of main as a ComOpp (and otherwise probably not care because old feat is old). - Tarkisflux ^Talk 00:35, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

	Spanambula dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.
	If you removed the ability to use Multifeat to select another Multifeat, I'd change this to a Favor. As it is (if my math is correct), taking this at level 15 would net you something like 16 feats so long as you exceed the reqs by 12 or more. Two feats for the price of one I'm ok with. 16+ for the price of one is no bueno.

Why are you okay with two weaker feats for the price of 1, but not 16 vastly weaker feats for the price of one? Is it a tableside difficulty thing, preference, or do you not buy the value exchange? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 00:35, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

There are plenty of AMAZING feats with no prerequs, the xchange value is utterly borked. Most metamagic feats have no prerequisite by example. --Leziad (talk) 00:40, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

I was asking Span since his rating left open the possibility of some trade at all, while yours did not.

I'm not actually convinced that there's a problem with wizards having all of the metamagic feats or benefiting from this more than fighters. Do you have a problematic example in mind? Mostly just curious, old feat is old and I only sort of care about defending it. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 02:04, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Fair enough. Say. I'm a 12th level character, we'll say Cleric 3/Wiz 3/ Mystic Theurge 6, hold the early entry cheese. Since I'm not an idiot I've taken the Alternative Spell Source feat. Maybe I picked up Arcane Thesis at 9th level for a favorite spell, maybe not. Anyway, I'm 12th level, so I take Multifeat. I now have 8 1st level feats. I take 4 metamagic feats, and then take Divine Metamagic for all four. Sweet! That's not so bad, you say, you're still limited by your turning attem- HANG ON, I say. I'm 15th level now. I take Multifeat. I now have 16 1st level feats. I take Extra Turning sixteen times. I now have 67+Cha mod turning attempts per day. (If for some reason that's not enough at 18th level this can become 195 + Cha mod turning attempts per day). I metamagic everything to death forever for free the end.

I am not good at optimizing, and I'm not going to even mention the elephant of Tome feats in the room, so if I can come up with something that completely breaks the game, I'm sure someone who actually knows what they're doing can break it even harder. But since you asked, this is my answer. - Spanambula (talk) 19:25, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for the reply Span. You're right, I don't really care if someone wants to get divine metamagic 4 times with this, though I care slightly more than I care about other metamagic feats because of their different opportunity costs. But the Extra X thing is absolutely a problem. And not just in this case - pobably any feat that boosted limited class features would be similarly bad (4 Extra Slots would be a mess, though I admit to not caring about 16 Extra Rages). So this needs to not allow feats that grant additional daily uses of anything. I'll kick it around for a couple of days while I think about fixing it or dumping it. Thanks again. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 22:18, 13 September 2016 (UTC)

If you limited it to medium and low balance feats most of the problems would go away. Fluffykittens (talk) 20:32, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

	Leziad opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	With plenty of feats that have no prerequs, plenty of feats with low prerequs this can get out of hand very very fast. This also benefits wizards who have metamagic feats that all pretty much have no prerequs (so character level 1) than fighters (who have more pronounced prerequs). Overall a poor solution to feat starvation.

NI Feats

Uh, I see an infinite feat loop here. Presuming you can meet the pre-reqs (and many feats don't have pre-reqs) you can keep going "I pick X and another multifeat." forever until you run out of feats you can qualify for. A number which can be very, very big. -- Eiji-kun 03:17, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Because of the whole "three points higher" rule and any feat without prereqs counting as having a prereq of "character level 1" I think you're still limited to a finite number of feats. Assuming you did pick Multifeat and a feat with no prereqs every time, you would have to be character level 4 the first time, 7 for the second, 10 for the third, and so on until you can't take any more feats because your level is just not high enough. At least, that's how I inperpreted it. - TG Cid 03:31, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

See, I don't read that with the wording. Yeah you have to wait til 4th to start the loop but it looks like each time you get it, the pre-req is "Character level 4th".

I'm also shaky with the concept itself, but making sure you can't chain loop it is good. -- Eiji-kun 04:02, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Cid has the intent right, but I think I know where you find the wording shaky and have updated it. Let me know if it's still not clear enough.

And let me know when you decide if you're ok with the concept or not, I'm down for some discussion on whether this is a good or bad thing for the game. The whole intention is to allow characters to choose alternate shticks later in life without having to retrain everything or start from the really really bottom of the pile. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 04:20, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

Since the text doesn't say you can get this feat multiple times, you cannot get it multiple times. The chain is not possible. --Havvy 14:31, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

The intent was that you could gain it multiple times, but I forgot about the "acquire once unless otherwise noted" restriction. The line has been added. The type has also been changed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tarkisflux (talk • contribs) at

I figure there has got to be some sort of broken behavior with this kind of feat, but I can't find it. Maybe taking feats that don't scale but pump other feats that do (psionic body + a bunch of psionic feats is still hardly broken though). --Aarnott 01:04, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

Is a feat that grants an ability with a scaling Saving throw, a scaling feat? --Parakee^Talk 01:50, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Not really, unless they have some other factors that scale. I'm pretty sure "scaling feat" in this case means things like Tome combat feats, Archetype feats, and the like. - TG Cid 03:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, that's the intent Cid. Most of those feats don't have prereqs and being able to get a big pile of them at once at higher levels is problematic in ways that getting a pile of Skill/Weapon Focus (or just some other mid level fighter trick) isn't because they're generally good. I've altered the wording so that it should be more clear what sort of scaling feat is ineligible, and the feat referenced above would only fail if it gave you some ability other than the saving throw when some other condition was met. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 16:39, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Chameleon

How does this feat interact with a chameleon bonus feat? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Parakee (talk • contribs) at

I don't know where that's from off the top of my head. Where's it at? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 15:51, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Prestige class from Races of Destiny which gives a floating bonus feat at level 2. - TG Cid 16:44, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Cid, just read it. It's unclear (to me anyway) whether you are allowed to reselect that feat to any feat that you qualify for, even those that you did not qualify for at the time you got it (because your BAB went up, because you have other permanent feats that open up new options, etc.), or if it works like any other retraining where you can only replace it with stuff that you could have gotten at the same time. My guess is it's a reselect, so I'd run it like that. Every morning you want to change it out, you erase it from your sheet and write in anything else that you qualify for with whatever is left over, which means you could pick a whole new (and potentially increasingly large as you level) MultiFeat array each day. If you want to run it as a retraining instead, that's already talked about in the feat. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:18, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

It is basically getting a new feat each day, and losing the old one. No carry-over from the last feat exists. --Havvy 00:29, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

But suddenly we have like 4 bonus feats! Rather than one!Parakee^Talk 13:22, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

If you do that, it's all lower level/power bonus feats. I'm not sure why I should care more about that case than I do about the normal feat slot case. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 16:22, 25 July 2011 (UTC)