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→Mechanics: A bit more elaboration on my point
::::::: If you want this to remain a PC class at High level... you're going to have to give up on remaining as close as possible to the source material. Others have said it before. In the game it wasn't a PC-type character. It was a monster. Make it a monster if you want to have all these weird things. On top of that, monsters aren't PCs. This is a PC class. A PC is meant to use it. Monsters don't tend to get good + silver + magic weapons every day. So that point is largely irrelevant. --[[User:Ghostwheel|Ghostwheel]] ([[User talk:Ghostwheel|talk]]) 22:37, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Well , technically speaking abomination , abominations are not immune to mindbreak, (some probably would be , though), given the only blanket immunity I gave was to mindless creatures. That , and abomination abominations predate mindbreak by years. --[[User:Leziad|Leziad]] ([[User talk:Leziad|talk]]) 22:40, 5 November 2015 (UTC)
:::::::::Check Everlasting Dream again, I heavily reworked it so that it's not as strong (though it does gain strength over several levels). Namely, the DR isn't too severely impenetrable at character level 15 (it's now DR 15/silver), gains more requirements to bypass it at higher levels, and doesn't get to utterly absurd levels until the Mogeko Snatcher is at an utterly absurd level. (Honestly, would it be ''that'' hard for a level 50 character to overcome DR 50?)
:::::::::::PCs don't have to always be fighting monsters, you know. They can fight NPCs, too.
:::::::::::Even if we discount NPCs, a whole lot of monsters can do much more than 15 damage with a single attack (for example, any CR 15 true dragon worth its salt could do at least somewhere in the range of 3d6+massive Strength bonus with one of its claws — for a physically oriented dragon, that number would be much higher). For the monsters that don't have such immense brute strength, I'm pretty sure that spells automatically bypass DR unless their description explicitly says that they don't (due to emulating or enhancing physical attacks). Heck, even spells delivered via a melee touch attack (like, say, [[SRD:Vampiric Touch|''vampiric touch'']] or [[SRD:Shocking Grasp|''shocking grasp'']]) bypass DR more often than not. A ''lot'' of monsters with 15+ CR have some sort of spell-like ability. Remember that the Mogeko Snatcher doesn't actually gain the abomination subtype and the traits that come with it (like, say, fire resistance) until they reach character level 30. Until then, a Mogeko Snatcher in abomination form is a pseudo-abomination, — treated as though it has the subtype without having any of the traits — which, in practice, would mostly cause it to take extra damage from attacks that do extra damage to abominations.
:::::::::::There are also monsters that use manufactured weapons just like PCs do, without necessarily qualifying as NPCs (many outsiders, such as angels, demons, and devils, wield manufactured weapons of some sort, and that goes double for the human-shaped ones). For instance, [[SRD:Kolaryut|kolaryuts]] are known to wield +2 longswords by default; it wouldn't be too much of a stretch for a kolaryut hunting a Mogeko Snatcher to bring a silver longsword instead, especially considering that kolaryuts are known to research their targets in advance. And there are also monsters whose natural weapons count as being made of some sort of material; heck, a high-level monk's unarmed strikes count as adamantine, and that's a PC we're talking about! I would presume that if someone made a golem out of silver, its slam attacks would count as silver weapons.
:::::::::::Also, isn't it the DM's job to make sure that the PCs' opponents are a credible threat to them? If the DM forgets about what bypasses a PC's damage reduction, then the DM is screwing up.
:::::::::::If it's ''really'' a problem, I could drop the DR down to ½ the Mogeko Snatcher's character level. However, I want it to be pretty really high — ''much '' higher than the damage reduction of a barbarian — because it's actually ''possible'' to bypass without resorting to something that completely ignores damage reduction (like, say, a [[SRD:Fireball|''fireball'']], or any blast spell, really), and, more importantly, it's '''''temporary'''''. Abomination form can only be activated once per day, and it only lasts for one round per character level. And when it's over, it renders the Mogeko Snatcher [[SRD:Fatigued|fatigued]], leaving it vulnerable. The relatively brief duration and vulnerability at the end justify making the DR difficult to overcome; it needs to have an effect that's not merely noticeable, but ''effective'' while it lasts. --[[User:Luigifan18|Luigifan18]] ([[User talk:Luigifan18|talk]]) 00:03, 6 November 2015 (UTC)
