Talk:Shape Eater (3.5e Class)

Splendour of the Raptor < Superiority

Now, this is just a small thing I noticed, but Splendour of the Raptor, as it is, is weaker then Superiority, despite the fact that both are great shifts. Splendor of the Raptor grants +8 to stats, but Superiority grants +12. If Splendor of the Raptor granted +6 to both stats, it would be worth using when compared to Superiority. Yes, it grants more to those two stats then Superiority grants them, but that's not enough to balance it against it. If it granted something extra, then yeah, it could maybe equal it in power, but currently, it doesn't do enough to be worth using.--YX33A 17:26, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

If you've decided to min-max your character towards a setup where as many abilities as possible are Wisdom- or Charisma- based, you might usually choose Splendour of the Raptor over Superiority. I don't think I have enough Wisdom-based Shifts available at the moment for that to be amazing, though.

However, even assuming that it is an inferior choice, I do not have to improve it: It really doesn't cost you much to learn a Shift (most of the time), so the pain of picking trap options is pretty minimal. --Foxwarrior 01:30, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Would you mind if...

...I made some shapes and shifts to match them? I've got some ideas, but they need to be cleared for me to push forward. I've got some ideas for dragons, some specific types of fiends, and a grab bag of creatures which may not be in the SRD.--YX33A 01:09, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Go ahead and make as many shapes and shifts as you like, but I reserve the right to tweak them. --Foxwarrior 01:20, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Some ideas

I know this is done but it would be cool if I could switch my ability scores in a way. What if I could use the ability score rebuilding rules from the PH2 when I shift I could add a cap on how much I can change that scales with level, allowing me to become even more versatile as levels progress. Maybe I can move around 5 points per 3 levels starting at level 3. So by 18th level I could move 30 points? Does that sound right. Of course this all applies before shifts...--Parakee^Talk 13:53, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Also, why not let someone take the bonus feat power multiple times? Maximum 3 time mabey?--Parakee^Talk 22:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Who would you eat to get the ability score switching power? You can take the Bonus Feat power multiple times with a different feat each time, you just can't activate it more than once. --Foxwarrior 04:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Ability switching is just a shape-shifting power that gives you a bit more adaptability. Its flavorful, useful (not doesn't give much of an increase to the power of the class) despite not being the product of eating things. IT might be nice to add some miscellaneous feature to this class. If you want everything to be from eating things maybe add a power that lets you take the ability score modifiers of a creature you've eaten. Record negative or positive, choose a base creature, and rebuild by lowering the negative and increasing the positives, but no more then the origin creatures bonus or x many points which ever is less.

Though why not use Bonus feat multiple times?--Parakee^Talk 12:51, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I was going for more of the style of the Wizard or Sorcerer, where a single class feature is sufficient to let them do everything. You can't use Bonus Feat multiple times because I don't feel like it's worth making an exception, and because even one scaling feat at a time is sufficient to give plenty of versatility in that respect. If you want to constantly reshuffle your feats, play a Nonlinear Fighter. --Foxwarrior 00:50, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

So no ability score rebuilding because you don't want more than one ability? Any other reasons?--Parakee^Talk 00:53, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

That's basically the only reason, yes, although I also feel that the ability is reasonably well covered already by the Shifts that give you a bonus to some ability score(s). --Foxwarrior 01:15, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

But the great thing about this class is its adaptability. But without being super optimized and fitting a few specific archetypes it is hopeless to fill this a wide range of roles as you may not have the required ability scores. Sure you can add a bonus but bonuses are worth more when they are being added to a high score, therefore certain shifts will be universally greater then others in combat. Why not become more adaptable in ability scores so you really can play the tank, or the glass cannon, or any other countless archetypes without weakening you combat role too drastically?--Parakee^Talk 01:21, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

You have a point. I think I'll make a set of shifts that set your base ability score to a value, so that you can be sure it isn't much too low. Now I just have to decide what you eat to get these shifts. --Foxwarrior 05:56, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank should workParakee^Talk 17:42, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Major Bend?

The Shift Level listed for Major Bend is minor, I assume this is a typo and its shift level should actually be Great? --Willturn

You are correct. It was a typo. --Foxwarrior 20:37, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Devour Entirely

It says the CR of the creature must be "at least 3 less than your CR". You do mean "no more than 3 less than your CR", right?

I think the intent is to say that any creature of a CR less than yours -3 is not worth transforming into and thus not compatible with the ability. So the current phrasing of "at least" is appropriate in that case. - TG Cid 04:59, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

That's approximately the opposite of what I meant, Cid. I guess it needs rephrasing slightly. --Foxwarrior 06:36, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Active Shift Reduction

I assume the intention of the lowered Active Shift count was to reduce complexity at higher levels? While level 20 isn't a particularly important level to care about, as-is, it locks the Shape-Eater into a very rigid situation where you take the Legendary Racial boost for a casting stat of ~60 (Assuming PaO: Gold Dragon), Legendary and Great Spellcasting, an Extra Standard Action, Immunity to Magic, Undistractable, Regeneration and Delayed Reaction/Divine Grace.

That's not bad at all, but it's also kinda boring for a Shapeshifter. The lower-level shifts don't really do anything to this combo - but allowing them would make other things better. Of course, this might just be a knee jerk reaction at the sight of losing options (that aren't spellcasting) as power is gained. --86.128.104.246 01:13, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

"The Shape Eater can activate two Shifts one rank lower in place of one Shift, or four Shifts two ranks lower, or one Shift one rank lower and two Shifts two ranks lower, and so on." I suppose it wouldn't hurt if I got around to adding a Legendary noncasting shift or two. --Foxwarrior (talk) 01:33, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Activating lesser shifts

So based on the 2 shifts of a lower level thing would it be correct to assume that you cold activate 16 least shifts, or 8 least shifts, 4 minor shifts, 2 major shifts, and 1 great in place of 1 legendary?

also was wondering if you could stack size increases or reductions to make yourself tiny or gigantic at will —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacksbane (talk • contribs) at

Yes, both of those uses are possible by activating lesser shifts. As for stacking size increases, keep in mind that "No two Shifts with the same names can be active simultaneously, unless specified in the shift's description." --Foxwarrior (talk) 05:18, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

ok i was wondering because of the minor shift that allows you to "increase by one size category" and then the major shift that allows you to "incrase by one size category" and was wondering first of all, if maybe you meant for the second one to be 2? and secondly if they could stack... otherwise why woulnt you simply use the least version?

also, i assume that you wouldnt be able to stack the ability score modifiers either, since it specifically states that it can be used multiple times, but only for different abilities? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jacksbane (talk • contribs) at

Oh, yes the different size changing shifts stack with each other, because they have different names. The ability score modifiers don't stack, because "racial" bonuses do not stack with each other. --Foxwarrior (talk) 05:58, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

Also a thought that occurred to me... Can I use 1 higher levelled shift, in place of 2 lower levels, or does it only go from higher to lower

Only from higher to lower. --Foxwarrior (talk) 01:23, 18 June 2013

Also when you automatically learn the 4 starting shifts and one at every level, do they have to be shifts you can use, or can you learn any shift? And I guess that goes for consuming enemies also, can you learn shifts you can't use yet?

As written, you can learn any shift. I might want to change that. --Foxwarrior (talk) 02:58, 18 June 2013 (UTC)

Rend

Added Rend as an option for the Major shifts, current wording gives you claws in case someone decides to use it but doesn't have Swiper, which sort of makes it a direct upgrade which shouldn't be too huge of an issue.--Stryker (talk) 07:22, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

The way Rend works seems like it's quite a lot better if you have four claws than two, because the odds of hitting with at least two claws goes up quite a bit. Many of the shifts in here are direct upgrades, but I think this one's worded like it stacks well with Swiper; I wonder if it would be better (in the sense of being more fun to play for someone who hasn't memorized all of the combos the class has to offer) to have Rend set your number of claw attacks to three or four instead of adding two. --Foxwarrior (talk) 07:45, 27 September 2016 (UTC)

Could call the new one Ravager, have the requirements for the omnommed creature be "Rend OR a creature with four claw attacks" and make it add four claws instead of two, no need to have a need for two shifts when one would do, a melee Shape Eater seems like it needs the help compared to the other variants, though I am considerably out of touch with 3.5e balancing.--Stryker (talk) 08:10, 13 October 2016 (UTC)