Talk:Sublime Knight (3.5e Class)

Balance Check

I'm satisfied, but what do you think? I got one "rogue" and one "high rogue" so far. I did worry about power and will drop the good Will save first if it needs a depowering, followed by Cha to Will only. (I never understood why Knights, a frontline class, had good WILL saves. Nothing about them indicated magic or mental defenses.) -- Eiji-kun 07:39, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Knights got good will saves since they were supposed to be defenders, and defenders that fall to fear effects (and run) or charm effects (and turn on their wards) suck. You could do the same thing with a few immunities or save bonuses though. - Tarkisflux 15:47, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, good will is very important to defender yet for some reason martial class alway got to short stick when it came to saving throws, the knight in player handbook 2 had a bad fortitude save... yeah better not follow their model when it come to saving throws. I don't think the class need depowering, it will perform similarly to the warblade in combat with different applications. --Leziad 19:27, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Balance Concerns

After seeing this class played a few times, and making a few NPCs that used it. I have a few concerns about certain aspect of the class’s balance:

• The base class chassis is the warblade with better armor and potentially tower shield access. It has the same maneuver pool and recovery as the warblade, with better proficiencies and saves.
• Their one weakness, their Code of Conduct is kinda weak, which would be fine except that the penalties for breaking it are chickenshit. At least have them lose Determined Spirit on the first violation. It become a matter of having uses of Knight's Challenge as 'free pass' to violate the code of conduct, which is counter-intuitive.
• Speaking of Determined Spirit, that is a very strong class feature to just hand out. The class already has pretty good saves, and it is one of the paladin's best class features. I think it should be like the crusader and only apply to Will save.
• The Banners, Talents, Armor Mastery and Comeback class features are all excellent.

They are effectively better warblade in almost every way. A warblade has some advantages with Int-based class features, but that hardly make up from the sheer number of great to excellent options the sublime knight receives. I would consider the following action:

• Reinforcing the penalties for breaking their CoC. Or doing away with it.
• Nerfing Determined Spirit, or doing away with it.
• Nerfing their maneuver recovery, to allow the warblade to at least have something above the sublime knight.

As it stands I think it is overloaded and needs a bit of a clean-up. --Leziad (talk) 18:38, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Clarity Changes

I found the wording on two features (Order of the Judge, Runica Talent) to be slightly confusing, so I rewrote them to be clearer. It is not my intention to change how they work or behave, so if anyone with more intimate knowledge of the original intention realizes I made a wrong interpretation, feel free to undo the relevant change. They have been kept separate in the history. --Eromythic (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2022 (UTC)

Additional Clarity Changes

I'm adjusting the wording on four of the Banner abilities. Currently they say "1+1/4th of their class level" which is a weird way of putting it. Two of the banners lead me to believe it's supposed to be just 1/4:

• Order of the Shield gets "They gain 1+¼th of their class level as a enhancement bonus to shields they use (minimum 1)." At level 20, 1+1/4 would be a +6 to their shield, which isn't rules legal.
• Order of the Sun gets "They gain 1+¼th of their class level as bonus damage (minimum 1) whenever attacking undead or creatures vulnerable to bright light. Against undead vulnerable to bright light, they deal ½ their class level in damage." As written, your bonus damage drops to less than half if you target something with both weaknesses instead of just one. Clearly not intended. Renshae (talk) 21:55, 28 February 2024 (UTC)