Talk:Soldier, Tome (3.5e Class)

Leggo My Eg--err, Name

So what exactly was the point of renaming my Soldier and taking the name for this class? I was using the name for a very specific reason [1].

Ahh, I get it now. I'll put your old version back, then. Just give me a minute to figure out how to change this class... Surgo 16:08, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

If you're wondering why I did it, it was because this class was made under this name months ago and I've been waiting for it to be finished (which it now is) to upload it here. The reason I moved the old name was, to be perfectly honest, because it was a very "generic"-feeling class and didn't seem to be tied to the soldier name in any way at all (I had no idea it was FF-based, which explains the name). So yeah. Sorry. I should have asked first. Surgo 16:14, March 28, 2010 (UTC)

Capstone

Indomitable Nightmare: while the class having an actual class feature at 20 is good, I'm under the impression that you managed to make something too good for even that - a strike tends to be a pretty battle-changing move all by itself, 3 at once seems ... ridiculous. Since I highly suspect ripping the warblade off doesn't matter at all in Tome, dual-stancing might actually be worthwhile even at 20, and not too crazy. That, plus the reach increase, possibly.

While many strikes are battle-changing, they're usually battle-changing... against one foe. Compare to a similar wizard-level class, the wizard, who can take out a half-dozen enemies with a single spell, or the soulborn who, once a minute, can wipe out all enemies within 100'. It's far more comparable to either of those than simply being able to be in two stances at the same time. --Ghostwheel 17:33, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

While I never agreed with the old and IMO false point of the original Tome warriors being better than spellcasters, I do think the recent incarnum classes + soldier by Frank are, by virtue of being quite better than original Tome classes, actually better combatants than spellcasters (and perhaps those with UMD are their equals out of combat as well), which's too much, so I wouldn't consider the soulborn a good data point. As for wizard: in Tome games, it seems actually kinda hard to land all of those (multiple at a time - single ones should be easy enough) kills on enemies that do matter, between short ranges, higher saves in Tome and an expectation of death/mind-affecting/etc. immunity. Meanwhile, the proposed level 20 soldier can get pretty much anywhere relevant and attack (doom tunnel/harrying strike, depending on circustances), attack everyone in sight (world-slaying strike), then morph the most relevant target into a hamster almost without fail - and all 3 strikes may add, say, sleep with a duration of "you die", if needed. Also: if the class held its own up to level 17 (which Frank's original seems to imply), it basically holds its own through 20 as well, as the changes actually are ... minimal, especially with regards to a class that already had an at-will resource model (i.e. it doesn't even "need" more 9th-level spells/day as a wizard "might").

Ummm... yeah, Foil Action is still better than anything this class or the soulborn has to bring to the table. It's actually better than spellcasters, since it doesn't even grant a save against its effects, doesn't suffer from SR, and enemies can't teleport away from you to break off (you'll just foil that as well). And I wasn't talking about just Save or Dies. I'm talking about Time Stop->Pirahnna Trap, dealing a good 20d6 (more? 100d6?) of damage to multiple enemies as a force effect with no save. Let's see most other characters top that. Even with all the things this gets, the Tome Fighter is still better. And capstones aren't there to "hold up". They're there because they're cool, and because it's something for a character to look forward to when they reach the pinnacle of their power, and a reason not to automatically multiclass into something else. --Ghostwheel 19:37, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Epic Race: Quarut

Being able to act during other people's time stops is beyond even regular wizard-level powerful I think. If you have 3 spellcaster buddies, you get 3d4+3 rounds to beat the snot out of the enemies. I figure the design was intended to counter enemy time stops. Instead, it makes your own spellcasters' time stops ridiculously powerful (and is also a good counter). --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 18:46, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Is this... in the right talk page? *headtilt* --Ghostwheel 18:52, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Yes. Look under the "Epic Stances" class feature. --Andrew Arnott (talk, email) 18:58, March 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, didn't see that one *nod* That said, that's wizard-level shenanigans for you *shrug* --Ghostwheel 19:06, March 29, 2010 (UTC)