Talk:Skill Muse (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

Ganteka Future likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.

I actually like this. For monsters, this seems rather handy since ordinarily you'd have to give lots of write-arounds with racial bonuses instead of ranks to get skills for dumb monsters where they should reasonably be at. It also means that Charisma-focused characters can still get to do some things without also having to be smart and have their Int-based skills be whatever. But yeah, this is totally an NPC/monster design feat that gets this a like.

	Havvy is neutral on this article and rated it 2 of 4.
	Change modifier X from Skill Y to Skill Z. About average for a feat.

Balance?

Though the value of skill points is debatable and depends on the particular skills available, might this be rogue level? The ability to totally dump Intelligence (since it is only tied to languages and skill points) seems quite powerful to me for particular classes since it frees up points for other ability scores. Granted the fact that it costs a feat is certainly a notable limitation (and the fact that Charisma is the other attribute means many will dismiss it), but there still remains the fact that certain classes (typically the ones who don't need any more power: the sorcerers, beguilers, favored souls, wilders, and many of the Tome sphere-based casters, but also the lesser warlocks, among others) will receive enormous skill point boosts, especially with retroactive skill points or at later levels where they're getting 10 skill points for having a high Charisma (which they need to boost as part of their class) rather than 4 or 5 because they would otherwise never invest in Intelligence. I'd stress the fact that I'm not sure here, I'm just putting this out there for thoughts. -- Jota 03:22, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well, you brought up my core arguements in your own arguements, congratulations. My statements in regards to that would've been, well, Cha doesn't do anything in the game... at all, just a few skills are even dependant on it, and the sad part is, that if you wanna make any real use of that Cha score, you also have to pay attention to your Int score, so that you can pump up those skills as well, meaning that, well, no one is going to put much of anything into Cha, if they're smart (this, sadly, also pumps up the strength of Ego Whip). Another statement would be that, well, I've played a Wizard before, and the good thing about them, is that they are going to have max ranks in all of their skills, and then some. The sorcerer suffers in this respect (on top of their resctricted spells known). Though, yeah, I agree, some classes would for sure be getting a different result from this feat than others, but, spending a feat just to shift around abilities scores to Skills, is a little bit of a waste of a feat, (desirable to turn down the Point Buy pressure, of course) so, I bomped it on with Fighter tag. It may be unquantifiable, though, if we're saying that YMMV. → Rith ^(talk) 04:44, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Grumble, edit conflict, grumble... I think it's ok at fighter level because of the Cha link actually. I don't think this is a substantial boost to the classes that you mention, mostly because them having more points just means they'll be getting some of the non-awesome skills that they were ignoring before. And it's not like those skills even matter to spellcasters (all of who you mentioned above) after level 5 or so anyway. Plus, this also doesn't really match up to any of the rogue level feat options out there. - TarkisFlux 05:02, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Unquantifiable is my guess, I don't really play D&D anymore, so I can't actually create a build to abbuse this off the top of my head, but I can just see this becoming a skill equivalent of the pun-pun. Also, whatever you do make sure to stick a note on saying that temporary and magic item boosts to Cha don't give new skills or you'll be able to gain any new skill you need by simply de-equipping your cloak of charisma then re-equipping it and putting your new skill pints in whatever skill you want. If you do that it shou8ld at least limit the abuse potential.--ThirdEmperor 07:07, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm going to go with Tarman on this one, since he's the skill guy. He would be the one to know how good a skill feat would be. Also, Third, that's already assumed. In fact, iirc, you don't gain skill points at all from Ability score increases, by RAW, at least, unless you go with the Retroactive skill points variant, which is a very good variant, but, is not relevant here. → Rith ^(talk) 12:22, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Like I said, I was just putting it out there, so if the consensus is fighter level that's fine, but I'm going to have to call you on the skill points for boosted abilities. Nowhere in the RAW does it say such. Just that ability boosts don't apply retroactively . -- Jota 16:56, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, just that in the Circlet of Intelligence item description it specifically states that it doesn't give extra skill points so I figured it might work that way, that's all.--ThirdEmperor 01:45, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Just pointing out a small quibble. Even with retro-skill points, you don't get any more skill points for slapping on a cloak of charisma or a casting of fox's cunning. They need to be permenant, so your normal leveling and inherent are the only ways to do that. What retro does is that when you DO get those bonuses you get the skills you missed for earlier levels as well. Carry on. -- Eiji Hyrule 01:53, January 31, 2010 (UTC)