Talk:Hunger of the Deep (3.5e Spell)

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Underleveled?

A 6th level spell that curses the target to Save or Die potentially every round for the rest of their lives? Hmm... -HarrowedMind (talk) 05:09, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

I was debating when I made this on the level. Now 5th is the first save or dies, and this is a bit of a conditional save or die (though its usefulness climbs rapidly if you're actually fighting underwater). Naturally the death can be evaded by escaping the water, though for water breathing things this might be a real death sentence. Considering adding an errata for that. Since it can be escaped by moving away from the water it shouldn't be that intense. On the other hand, I might drop the SoD to Phantasmal Killer levels; two saves and immunity if you have something. Maybe mind-affecting effects.

It is by its nature a fatal curse, that part I wish to keep. Pondering. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 06:43, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

(EDIT) Nerfs applied, now its the constant threat of 10d6 damage with possible death via triple threat. Also, aquatic beings have a much easier time, though it is certain death if they fail. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 14:13, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

If you're going with the PK comparison, shouldn't the damage line go more like "a save" -> if succeed "nothing" / if fail "another save" -> if succeed "minor damage" / if fail "death"? This is a bunch of damage every round you're near a soupbowl of water, and it might still be a bit much for a persistent death curse at 6. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:58, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

So lower the damage further? What sounds good for a 6th level spell? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:29, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I'm more concerned about the damage being basically unavoidable (evasion not withstanding) than the amount. If you wanted to go with PK SoD levels you'd do something like "reflex save. on success, nothing. on fail, fort save. on success, 5d6 damage. on fail, death. repeat every round within range". That's a decent 6th level curse IMO and still a death sentence, but it's not an auto-drain just for being near water. Alternately, you could just make it an auto-drain for being near water; keep the damage line and drop the instant death part. They take enough damage over a few rounds of water immersion to die anyway, so it's still a death sentence but a more gradual one. Not really sure if you have inspiration you're trying to match or not so I don't know which is a better fit. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 02:00, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

But thats how it is now... clearly I haven't succeeded on the wording, but its the initial curse (Will), the save vs damage (Reflex), and the save vs death (Fort). Well, the only thing I don't have is Reflex negates, so I should do that. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 02:31, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Well, I did actually forget about the initial will save, but it was ref half before instead of ref none and that makes quite a bit of difference. It's actually worse than a 3 save though, because it's 3 saves and a touch attack. You can probably drop the initial will save because of the touch attack. A touch followed by a double save is almost certainly fine for a persistent recurring SoD VH 6; I'm tempted to call a close range spell with no initial will save fine as well even.

So I guess I wanted to see the effect toned down a bit to better match PK and the application relaxed? Makes me sort of wonder if I didn't knee jerk the initial format a bit.... - Tarkisflux ^Talk 04:52, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

I'll think about altering either range or the third save, but until then I'll err too weak than too strong. It's ok, it really did start out too strong, I appreciate the input! Now let's see how others think. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:04, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

The recurring save barely matters. Even if you only fail on a 1, and it deals just 5d6 damage per failure, it'll still kill you in half an hour. This is a Save or Be Inconvenienced Fatally, and all the recurring save serves to do is make things resolve more slowly. I would approve of an initial save, followed by a guaranteed 20 (or CL × 2, whatever) damage per round while the imaginary tentacles are killing you, although I could see a simple save or die each round (with a reduced DC, if you prefer) working too if you want to maximize the suspense. --Foxwarrior (talk) 08:20, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Clarifications!

Is a standard waterskin as large as a big soupbowl? Do multiple individual water sources (i.e. many waterskins) add up to a large enough body of water? Does the water have to be open or not-enclosed in some way? Does a sufficiently heavy rain count? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:58, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

No, waterskins (to my knowledge) are just those metal canteens except leather. Not very big. Neither multiple waterskins, or rain (though the resulting puddles might be). The idea is that water is a portal, and a too small opening of water (such as in a water bottle) is too small for tentacles. It's not very clear, I will need to clarify. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 01:29, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

Saving Throws and Break Enchantment

Does the subject get an initial Will saving throw to avoid being cursed?

Also, I believe break enchantment only works on effects of 5th level or lower. --Luigifan18 (talk) 17:19, 11 October 2015 (UTC)