User talk:Luigifan18/Ukemi (3.5e Feat)

Ratings

	Spanambula opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	There is no part of this feat that doesn't hurt my soul. Seriously, learn to be concise. Your good ideas might as well not even be on the wiki if no one is going to read these goddamn walls of text you write.

	Undead Knave opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	This has been CO for more than a month, and it's all been said already. I'm mostly just bumping this so someone will move it. Also, it's awful.

	Sulacu opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	What can I say here that hasn't been said before? In the time it takes to read this I could go out and master the art of judo in real life.

Ganteka Future opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

This one was a paltry 12 minute read at a reasonable pace. It's basically a slurry of weird conditions and parenthetical notes. If you would like to spend time reading something with a better final payoff than "this is a fighter feat" that's listed as [General], enjoy the below: One day a young man who wished to become an honorable warrior sought out a wise martial arts master to train him. When he got to the master, the master told him "I will train you when you are ready, and only will you be ready when you have caught an elephant. In the land of the blue elephants, I do not want to to go, for catching blue elephants is easy. In the land of the red elephants is not where you seek your prize either, for even though red elephants are difficult to catch, it is to the land of the white elephants you must go, where white elephants, the most difficult to capture elephant there is, is the elephant you must bring back to me as proof of your readiness to train under me, a wise martial arts master". So the young man departed from the wise martial arts master and began is quest to capture a white elephant in order to train to become an honorable warrior. Although he did not know the way to capture the difficult to capture white elephant, his not knowing did not stop him. Next he sought out a wise and all knowing mountain hermit. When the young man arrived at the wise and all knowing mountain hermits cave, the wise and all knowing mountain hermit told him "I know why you have come to me young man, you wish to know how to capture the most difficult to capture white elephant so that you may train under the wise martial arts master and become an honorable warrior." The young man said "Yes, can you tell me how to capture the white elephant, the most difficult to capture of all elephants?". The wise and all knowing mountain hermit told him "To capture your most difficult to capture white elephant, you must use raisins, for raisins are the most delicious treat to elephants, white elephants especially love raisins however, so when you use the raisins as bait for the elephants, use extreme care, now away with you, for you need to bring honor to you and your family by training under the wise martial arts master". So the young man left the wise and all knowing mountain hermit and went to 7-11 to buy some cinnamon raisin bread, where after purchasing it, plucked out all the raisins but one. He then purchased an airline ticket and traveled to the land of the white elephants. He put the loaf of cinnamon raisin bread out in a clearing on a log and waited in some nearby bushes for a white elephant to show up. Suddenly "MMMMM....I LOOOOOVE RAISINS!" boomed out and a stampede of white elephants broke into the clearing, tore apart the raisin bread and left before the young man could toss out a lasso. Slightly discouraged, he got back on the plane, traveled back to the 7-11 and bought another loaf of cinnamon raisin bread and plucked out all the raisins but one, got back onto the plane to the land of the white elephants and found his clearing again. This time he took rope and tied the loaf of cinnamon raisin bread to it and hoped into the bushes. Again "MMMMM....I LOOOOOVE RAISINS!" boomed out and a stampede of white elephants broke into the clearing and tore apart the rope and the loaf and quickly ran back into the forest. The young man, getting tired of these elephants and wishing to bring honor to himself and his family by training under the wise martial arts master, departed once again for his plane, went back to 7-11, bought another loaf of cinnamon raisin bread, plucked out all the raisins but one, got back on the plane and back to the clearing in the land of the white elephants. He took the loaf and chained it to the log hoping to buy himself enough time to lasso one of the elephants. Sure enough "MMMMM....I LOOOOOVE RAISINS!" boomed out and a stampede of white elephants broke into the clearing and tore apart the chains and the loaf of cinnamon raisin bread. The man tossed out his lasso, but it simply hit the ground where the elephants where a moment before they retreated into the forest. He knew he was getting closer, the young man got back on the plane and headed back to 7-11 to buy another loaf of cinnamon raisin bread, plucked out all but one raisin, got back on the plane and headed back to the clearing in the land of the white elephants. The young man took out a bottle of Super Crazy Glue and glued the loaf onto the log and hid in the bushes with his lasso ready. Once again "MMMMM....I LOOOOOVE RAISINS!" boomed out and a stampede of white elephants broke out into the clearing. He threw his lasso straight and true for when the stampede broke there was still one elephant there trying to pull the loaf of raisin bread free from the log. The elephant pulled and pulled at the loaf until he turned blue.

	Fluffykittens opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	It's even longer than my penis.

Tarkisflux is neutral on this article and rated it 2 of 4.

I actually read this feat, and there's nothing special here. Auto-stand from prone with a save, negate damage from being thrown, and reduce falling damage are pretty niche but make okay Moderate balance options when all tied together. Probably... It is also unnecessarily complicated and full of fiddly bits (6 point damage reduction! woo?), but that should come as no surprise. I would probably disallow it based on length. There's just too much going on here to want to deal with. But if that's your thing or your players really want to track details...

	Surgo opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	tl;dr

TLDR

Feat descriptions should be short enough that you can understand what the feat does with a cursory glance.Fluffykittens (talk) 23:45, 9 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, there's a lot this feat can do, but in a nutshell, it reduces the severity of hard impacts with walls or the ground. For me, more detail is always a good thing. I want to leave munchkins with as few loopholes as possible. --Luigifan18 (talk) 00:52, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

Well, yeah, but in practical terms, I don't think most players/DM's want to read a 2k word treatise on what ONE feat can and cannot do. Fluffykittens (talk) 03:13, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I believe that "munchkin" includes people who optimize by cheating. Using abilities that are too long for the DM to bother reading is a good strategy if you want to cheat.

And there's always the possibility that a patch you stick on to close one loophole will open a bigger one. --Foxwarrior (talk) 04:04, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

...So glad I didn't leave this as a skill trick, otherwise it'd probably be going the way of Balanced Offense. Yeah, this used to be a skill trick — I wanted it to be takable at any level once the prerequisites were met. Once I started making it more complicated and I decided to give it to the Viewtiful Warrior as a class feature, though, I realized that leaving it as a skill trick was stupid. It does way too much to be paid for with just 2 skill points. Plus, there's no precedent for bonus skill tricks as a class feature, but plenty of precedent for bonus feats. I did leave in the old prerequisites, though, and also added one more.

And it's not so bad if you break it down into its components. (The first benefit of this feat is inspired by Viewtiful Joe. The second benefit is inspired by Sonic Battle. The third benefit is a logical extension of the first for a game where fall damage is actually an issue; if I didn't include it, somebody would probably try it sooner or later anyways.) I just prefer to have everything up-front in the ability itself, rather than needing to write errata later because somebody misinterpreted it. (And I may remove the consecutive wall-jumping thing, as you can't actually do that in Sonic Battle. I just stuck it in on the off chance that somebody performed a wall ukemi only to launch himself face-first into another wall, and at the same time, I wanted to impose some sort of limit on exploiting Ukemi to bounce up a chasm — again, somebody would have tried it sooner or later.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I think you could make it much shorter without making it any less clear. For example, spring off wall and soften fall are really the same thing, except with different orientation of surface. You could put it into terms of how many dice of damage one takes instead of separating it out. Further, rather than elaborate on the circumstance bonuses, you could just include them as numeric values in each effect. I could probably cut this down to about 1000 words if you were okay with that. --Maninorange (talk) 22:19, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

I would be curious to see how that turned out... --Luigifan18 (talk) 22:26, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

Poe's Law

I know I'm two years late but jesus man, thou hath become a parody of thyself Luigi. I started reading this two years ago and I just finished chapter 81, book 7: the revenge of the unnecessary detail. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 10:18, 10 August 2014 (UTC)

I'm still thinking every now and then when I see some of these articles, I bet Luigi is a Skynet android that was sent back in time to write the 1st edition AD&D grapple rules. --Sulacu (talk) 08:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Okay, you win the Internet for that one. I nearly broke out in a fit of spontaneous giggling on the spot. --Luigifan18 (talk) 15:59, 6 June 2015 (UTC)

An overdue explanation

In TarkisFlux's rating, he expressed confusion over the 6-point damage negation. This stems from this feat's source material, the Viewtiful Joe series. In both of the first two games, the Ukemi is a purchaseable upgrade that allows you to, upon being hit by an attack and knocked over, activate Zoom In at precisely the moment you hit the ground to bounce back to your feet. (The Reflex save requirement in my D&D version is there to reflect the need for precise timing to perform the technique.) As a bonus, executing Ukemi in Viewtiful Joe heals you for one heart (out of a maximum of 15 (starting max health is 5)), though since it requires being knocked over to perform in the first place, and getting knocked over involves getting hurt, it really only gives you back some health that you lost. Furthermore, you lose health upon getting hit, but execute Ukemi upon hitting the ground. Unlike in Viewtiful Joe, getting knocked prone in Dungeons & Dragons doesn't require you to take damage. So having Ukemi heal the user is just completely silly. Plus, Ukemi's healing in Viewtiful Joe is just a consequence of game mechanic limitations, where there's a delay between taking damage and hitting the ground to perform Ukemi. Dungeons & Dragons doesn't care nearly as much about the delay bewteen getting hit and falling over. So I changed the mechanic from health regain to straight-up damage prevention, which is pretty much what was being aimed at in the first place. And it's only 6 hit points because the Ukemi health regain in Viewtiful Joe really isn't a huge amount, so I wanted its counterpart in Dungeons & Dragons to similarly not be such a massive deal. (There's a similar ukemi mechanic in Super Smash Bros. — more coloquially known as "teching" for that game — and that doesn't mitigate recently-taken damage at all: it just allows you to instantly negate landing in a prone position. I wanted to focus more on the Viewtiful Joe version since this feat was built for the Viewtiful Warrior.)

The five-foot bounce is also a direct translation from the Viewtiful Joe games, where successfully performing Ukemi causes you to bounce up into the air and continue flying backwards for a short distance until you either double-jump out of it or land on your feet. (However, performing Ukemi denies you mercy invulnerability, so if you end up landing on a harmful surface, you might just get knocked back down.) If you don't perform Ukemi successfully, you land flat on your back, stay down for a few seconds, and get back up right where you fell. So, depending on whether you do or don't perform Ukemi, you may recover in a different location. I made the movement after Ukemi optional and allowed it to be in any direction in my D&D transcription, but otherwise stayed true to the spirit of the original Viewtiful Joe move. (Actually, making the movement optional and in any direction you please was an element borrowed from the Super Smash Bros. version, which lets you tech into a standing position or a forwards or backwards roll.)

As for bouncing off walls, that is, as I mentioned, derived from Sonic Battle, in which certain attacks, upon connecting, launch the opponent far away. If the opponent collides with a wall before their forced momentum ends, they normally take extra damage and drop right down to the ground, but by holding the opposite direction on the control pad, they can negate the extra damage and spring off into the air. (There's more to the wall rush mechanic, but I won't go into it here because it's not relevant to this feat.) --Luigifan18 (talk) 13:53, 14 November 2017 (MST)