User talk:Rithaniel/Denizen of Twilight (3.5e Race)

Ratings

	Luigifan18 dislikes this article and rated it 1 of 4.
	+10 racial ability bonus — are you for real?!? Balance isn't typically my top concern when I design or rate something — I'm more concerned with fun — but even I can see that this is nuts! I kinda want to like this a little, 'cause I get The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess vibes from it, but... seriously, it's a mess.

	Fluffykittens opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	Boring and mechanically bad and boring.

	Surgo opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	As all the "Denizen of X", it's both unusable and uninteresting. If it was one or the other it could probably be okay, as there's plenty of stuff that falls into one of those camps, but with both it's completely useless.

	Eiji-kun opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	My other rating, and Gan's rating, covers everything. But something about this really bothers me. "Denizens of twilight usually name their children for the sole purpose of giving them an identity." I... I... wat.

Ganteka Future opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

Ugh. Short version: This is unplayable and lopsided. Yep, there's your problem. Your light isn't illuminating and your darkness is too bright. There's a little slider here on the side to adjust that …and there you go, that should waitaminute. +10 Wisdom… "…usually won't follow any religion." So, I know what you're thinking right now (I actually don't, so don't worry, just play along), "Hey, these super neutral wisdom monsters would be awesome at divine casting if they weren't three levels behind everything making them virtually useless at any given role"… and hey, I was just gonna say "why aren't they immune to morale bonuses/penalties if they're so emotionless?", but I guess we're not on the same page here. So again, another denizen race that isn't proficient with any weapon or attack out of the box and doesn't gain anything fun. Reading this just makes me think "Why isn't there a denizen of bees from the plane of something unrelated to bees and he looks like a differently colored human and must act a certain way that's likely a pain to roleplay and also can't contribute?"… and that's not a good thought to have. Ugh.

Wut?

Isn't +10 Int exaggerated with no LA?

I mean Wisdom.--16:45, October 23, 2009 Idkwhatmynameis

It has 2 racial hit dice and an overall ECL of 3 (though I think that's a typo), and so an ECL of 3 + any class levels you put on top of it. Which is sorta like being +3 LA, but less crappy since it comes with a couple of hit dice and skill points and whatnot (but you can't buy it off). You're effectively giving up two three caster levels in exchange for your +10 wisdom... which is an interesting trade.

Also IDK, please sign your comments on talk pages. There's a button you can use at the top, or you can just put ~~~~ at the end. - TarkisFlux 00:54, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Hah, somehow I missed that. Sorry Rith! Surgo 00:56, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

It's no problem man, I kinda always expect these races to get raised eyebrows regardless. Though thank you. As for the ECL 3 part, I meant that, with the first character level, it becomes ECL 3. Now then, quick question, does anyone think it'd be better with 3 racial hit die instead? → Rith ^(talk) 08:03, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Gotcha... Should probably be listed as ECL 2 per SRD definitions though, since the racial writeup just has racial hit dice and doesn't include a class level as yet. None of the base races are listed as having an ECL of 1, that's assumed to come from the class level that they don't have yet (since their racial die gets replaced instead of added on to).

It might be worth it to give it another racial hit die. It's already casting like a cohort in most games, but it's spell DCs are substantially higher. I think with the extra movement, fear ability, save and BAB bonuses it's pretty solid. One more level behind on casting would make it a bit weaker in the cleric role without hurting it in any other area, and 3 levels behind on new spells still leaves them with a 3 point DC margin against clerics of their level casting their highest available spells... tough call actually. I'd lean towards doing it, but I'd want to test first. - TarkisFlux 17:56, October 24, 2009 (UTC)

Well, I'll go ahead and make that edit to all my 'denizen' races then. Thanks for the feedback btw. → Rith ^(talk) 01:10, October 25, 2009 (UTC)