Talk:Fire Mage (3.5e Class)

Wording

Is Fire Bolts supposed to be class level (presumably?) or character level? -- Jota 17:43, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Knowing Frank, probably character level, on the basis that every class ought to have something you can carry away from it--like how the Tome Monk always lets a character do subdual damage starting at level 2, so a Monk who becomes a wizard can totally caster non-lethal fireballs. --Genowhirl 17:54, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Only to level 15?

This seems like an interesting class...but it doesn't seem like a prestige class, and it goes only to 15. Though it is "finished", it is also, by its very nature, unfinished. I would urge the creators to add the last five levels.

Well, it is a Frank and K class, and they do sort of have a thing with making some base classes shorter than others (the knight, for example). From what they said about it in Races of War, some base classes are short because "...there's no 'normal line of advancement after that point." Now, with the knight, they had lots of prestige classes for him after 10th but for the Fire Mage...I don't think there is one yet. But yeah, it can be a little disorienting to see a short base class; I was like that back when I first saw the knight. You'll get used to it after a while.

Adding a category

Anyone mind if I add the grimoire category to this? --Ghostwheel 12:17, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

The Grimoire category description doesn't seem to apply to this; it preexisted your Grimoire system, so I don't see how it's "inside, part of" and definitely not "based on" that revision.

Based on that description, I suggest that your "Ghostwheel-approved" listing would be better served by either a "Grimoire-compatible" category or a list of approved non-Grimoire-derived material that is still compatible with that system. --Quantumboost 19:58, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Right, that's basically what the grimoire category is; none of the material there was originally made specifically for the system, it just works well within that system. If I change the description, then would there be a problem? --Ghostwheel 20:04, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

No, the description mismatch is my hang-up there. If the description were re-written to actually apply to this, I'm fine with adding the category. --Quantumboost 20:07, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

Ratings

	Ghostwheel likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	A solid class that knows what it wants to do and gets there, being a great class for any newbie who wants to try their hands at D&D by throwing around great balls of fire.

	TK-Squared favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	This is a well made class that truly highlights a good design philosophy. The class is simple, scales and has great playability. Pyromaniacs rejoice at it's fire based powers.

	Undead Knave favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	This class is simple and easy to play. It has a nice flavor and sticks to it. I also like playing it.

Piercing flame

Hey just a little bit of confusion, it says that it cuts through fire immunity but allows only half of the fire Damage to be lowered by fire immunity, does this mean a creature immune to fire takes half damage? Or is allowed half it's resistance? Cause I don't think Many creatures that are immune to fire damage have resistance against it, Ty Balthuras 05:00, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

It means that half the damage done by any fire spell against an enemy with Fire Immunity is not negated. So, if you deal 60 fire damage against an enemy with Fire Immunity, with Piercing Flame, you still deal 30 fire damage, none-the-less. --TK 14:21, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Fire Bolts

Does anyone think fire bolts as an attack action is a bit much, and should maybe just be a standard? Unless I'm missing something, for rogue level with 3/4ths BAB that's pretty good. 71.236.66.236 06:36, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'm guessing that fire bolts are not a weapon that can be dual-wielded, so with three attacks dealing 1d6 per character level you're about in line with a rogue sneak attacking with acid flasks at a similar level. As it stands, Fire Bolts are really the fire mage's only method of attack (instead of a variable backup weapon like an unoptimized warlock's eldritch blast). As such, it really has to do some damage in order to be viable as a rogue-level class, especially given the number of creatures who have fire resistance even at very early levels, before the fire mage gets Piercing Flames and the like. Yeah, it's pretty good, but nothing that a rogue of a similar level couldn't necessarily achieve. The only difference is that this is basically pre-optimized, which makes it good for newer players as it pointed out in the description. - TG Cid 13:57, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

While the rogue can still take TWF and rapid shot and whatnot, that's a lot more feats spent just to equal the fire bolts. And the fire bolts also apply against more enemies, are easier to get off (no need for sneak attacks), have a longer range, pierce resistances (although he's not getting as many options against which resistance to target), and so on. Throwing off multiple just seems to be too much, although they might need a small damage boost later on.

A lot of things have fire resistance and immunity, so while the Fire Mage can still penetrate that to a degree, it's not the full force. I'd have to really check the monster entries, but I think it really does even out. And I can't figure out too many ways to roid out a Fire Mage...Well, Point Blank Shot + Sniper (+3 to attack and damage within 60 feat) might do something. But it's really hard to find a way to noticeably increase in the power. --Genowhirl 21:03, October 1, 2010 (UTC)

Monster Manual 1 (3.5e) Elemental
Immunities and Resistances Tally

Resistance Level	Acid	Cold	Elec.	Fire	Sonic
Immunity	13	27	27	33	5
Resistance 10	18	27	11	28	7
Resistance 5	6	7	8	7	0
Vulnerability	0	17	0	9	1

Happened to have done this a while ago, figured I might as well post it since its something people seem to be curious about so you can see how the elementals stack up to each other (somewhat, since it is a small sample of just the one book). As a note, most of the resistant creatures have multiple resistances and are primarily the outsiders featured in the book (celestials and fiends) Dragons also only got one tally for each type rather than each age category if I recall. Roughly 420 monsters in the book. --Ganteka Future 19:04, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Sources of Fire Damage?

Impress Flames adds extra fire damage for each source of fire damage so if I have hands of fire activated and my weapon has the flaming enchantment, then each attack would activate this bonus twice? Is this correct? 78.84.202.95 15:46, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes. --Havvy 16:19, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

Tome BAB Progression Notice

It happens on occasion where people attempt to "fix" what looks like an error. Should we make some sort of small top-banner-notice-thing for Tome-style BAB classes with a link to point out that sort of thing to avoid this confusion in the future for all classes of this type? Just posting the question here since it happened again. -- Ganteka Future (talk) 05:37, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

I second this suggestion, especially since a great deal of other Tome classes already have disambiguation headers so adding a further notice will not require much change. If it gets approved I would do it on my applicable classes as well. Perhaps something like the following:

“

This classes was created based on Tome rules, and therefore uses a Tome-specific Base Attack Bonus progression.

”

Including a link to the applicable Tome page would also help, of course, but I was too lazy to do that at the moment. - TG Cid (talk) 06:21, 9 February 2015 (UTC)