Talk:Level Adjustment Dice (3.5e Variant Rule)

Ratings

	Spanambula favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	We've been using this forever, and it's worked out very well. Opens up fun options without being gamebreaking. Kudos.

	DanielDraco likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	It seems like a pretty decent band-aid fix. Not perfect, but it doesn't intend to be.

	Foxwarrior likes this article and rated it 3 of 4.
	Yes, LA does need to be replaced with HD, like this, for the sake of the numbers. Actually making those races and templates be balanced still requires going in and picking new LA and HD amounts individually for each one, though.

	Eiji-kun favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	Huh, I like this. I like this a lot. And it doesn't rely on having a good template or race type (outsider, dragon, etc) to gain maximum benefit, it is equally applied to all. I approve. 10 horse points.

For starting at level 1

Start with one class level, and then alternate the level adjustment HD with normal class levels until you finish through all the racial HD?

So a +2 LA progression would look like this:

Character level 1 - Class level 1

Character level 2 - LA HD 1

Character level 3 - Class level 2

Character level 4 - LA HD 2

Character level 5 - Class level 3

Character level 6 - Class level 4

Character level 7 - Class level 5

Thoughts on that as a way to start lower-level people with LA? They might be more powerful at first level since they have all the benefits, but at least it gives an option for starting low and slowly adjusting the total power. --Ghostwheel (talk) 02:10, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

Oh that interesting. Let me reflect on that a bit, I would still out a minimum starting level, to avoid thing like a 1st level vampire in a party of LA 0 races. --Leziad (talk) 02:50, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

So...

I got to thinking. What if you removed LA, and just gave people a penalty to everything d20-based equal to the LA?

That means attacks, saves, DCs, AC, and all checks. Maybe also to Constitution score or something so they don't have 50 HP at first level due to high HD. Haven't thought it through completely, but it's a start.

Thoughts? --Ghostwheel (talk) 14:09, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

It might be ok for some low LA creatures, but wouldn't it push some high LA creatures off the bottom of the RNG? - Tarkisflux ^Talk 17:29, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Suppose that someone is playing a Half-Dragon Human Grimoire Marshal -- the vast majority of their class and racial benefits have nothing to do with a d20, and their AC and most opposed checks will be boosted by the template more than they are harmed by the LA, so basically the only detriment they'll get is a penalty to saves. Suppose that someone is playing a Phrenic Human Thaumaturge -- virtually everything they do is driven by half-level-based DCs, which means that you've essentially doubled their most important losses, on top of the penalty to saves and AC. So in some cases you've made LA virtually irrelevant, and in others you've made it even more crippling than it was before. Replacing it with a penalty, even one as broad as "everything d20-based", just doesn't cover every character equitably. --DanielDraco (talk) 18:53, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

Hrmmm... I guess playing as advanced creatures at lower levels without just making them into a class or something is fairly inherently flawed... Not that they were ever meant to be balanced compared to characters (looking at you, Ghaele...) --Ghostwheel (talk) 20:23, 10 November 2013 (UTC)