Talk:Boss (3.5e NPC Class)

Ratings

Ganteka Future opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

The ratings on this one are really oddly... polarized. I can see a point for liking it and wanting to use it, but that doesn't address that there are inherent major problems built into the design of it. It reads more like this should have been re-assessed as a template from the ground up rather than as a class, a template that could be applied multiple times. It doesn't grant HD. It's not a class. It specifically and purposely breaks the CR/HD system without any replacement or mending. There are character abilities that rely on that type of thing (Turning/Rebuking comes to mind, as weird of a subsystem as it is). It also weirdly implies that wizards are going to... hmmm. A wizard with 10d4s and like a Constitution of 14... average of 45 HP. Give that guy a level in boss and he's at like 90. Okay that's great whatever, now you're trying to turn a wizard, which should be overcoming the PCs through cleverness and indirect combat and summoning and spells upon spells into a tank. You've spoiled it. You've taken the idea of this being a dangerous foe to tangle with because of their powers and cheated. It's a cheat. Doubling HP is a cheat. It's not something the PCs can get, it's outside of the system. It's a cheat. They'll cry foul. At least they should if they realize what you're doing. Going for a video-game style boss fight kinda thing is fine, but this varies so wildly across who you're applying it to that balance is just gone. Like other's have said, there is an idea here, but the execution isn't something that's good for the game as a whole. It's also designed to purposely screw over certain types of characters (ranged ones in particular with that forced small size for Seal Area, making this boss Huge or bigger and having them have any kind of area of effect is absolutely murder). Sure, it's a wizard that trapped you in a small area and cast cloudkill that sure sounds like a not-fun encounter. Worse if this is a druid and now you're fighting a half-dragon tyrannosaurus in a closet while it eats you and casts spells and there's nothing you can do about it because you're a fighter and you can't deal with a wall of force.

DeadAndCuddly favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!

I've used this a few times now and it does work really well for when you can't figure out a way to make a character concept into an interesting encounter. Generally I've found it works best if you use it in lower level quantities however, and then buff them in the other class. I've found that taking the party level, making a character 1 or 2 levels above that, and then giving them 2 or 3 levels in this works best for an eventful encounter that doesn't just get instagibbed. That all said, ignoring the prereqs is a fine idea and I don't really know that they should be there.

Luigifan18 favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!

Wow. This is a great prestige class for those big villains who you absolutely don't want to have going down without a massive fight. The abilities can supplement any class and race exceptionally well, and make a Boss a dangerous enemy without downplaying the abilities of his or her other class(es). All in all, this is a class that should be given to any major enemy in a campaign. To elaborate further — D&D 3.5e is infamous for its Rocket Tag Gameplay, especially at higher balance levels, where combats are often decided in a single move. Dramatic boosts to HP go a long way to enabling the bad guy to survive the opening salvo, and even last for a few rounds. This means the PCs need a strategy other than “make the foe helpless, then engage Alpha Strike” to succeed.

	174.27.17.169 favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	Awesome. Same reasons as Luigifan. Imagine a main villain with 5 levels of Boss and 3 in Lich Paragon! That guy has about 100 Plot Resistance right there!

	Zekage favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!
	The statistics are solid and the concept even more so. This will be a godsend to DM's who are tired of powergaming PC's 1-hitting their Dark Lord Of Doom, though it may well annoy PC's not looking to go for that video game boss fight feel.

The-Marksman favors this article and rated it 4 of 4!

This is actually a really good utility idea. Having the good BAB, saves, spell progression, you could logically use this to give your villain a quick but substantial boost to power with only 1-2 levels, then like Zekage said it gives a video game boss feel. Especially if you don't jump right from one health pool to the next, if you let the PCs think he's dead for a moment, then they turn their backs and he gets back up, and one turns around and sees he's still moving! Suspenseful!

Eiji-kun opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.

As I stated below, this needs to be an NPC class, not a PC class. You certainly don't want Boss Health for PCs, and the Special doesn't really stop people; evil campaigns yo. I can EASILY be the major villain. Normally this would just grasp dislike, but... But even as an NPC class it fails, for it gains little to no offensive bulk and just a lot of hp (rage form is the only offense, sorta). So whatever class he was BEFORE, he's not really gaining much more for the extra levels and just acting the annoying hp sponge. That's not how you make good bosses. Drops it down to oppose.

	Leziad opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	Massive hp bloat and odd broken abilities. There an idea there, but it buried in nonsense.

	Fluffykittens opposes this article and rated it 0 of 4.
	Hp bloat just means more rounds beating on a helpless monster after debuffing him.

HELP!!!

I can't seem to get this page to format right. What did I do wrong? And if you found it in your heart to fix it, go ahead and laugh AFTER you tell me how I fucked up.

I wouldn't dream of laughing at you for forgetting to remove a nowiki tag and a symbol. This really is one of the less stupid things you have done, but it still would be better as a template, since you can do things like use a higher Level Adjustment than Challenge Rating rather than relying on the idea that PCs are special (which is a thing that this game almost entirely avoids), and you don't have to use the haphazard class feature-boosting methods that prestige classes do.

Also, since "When one health is depleted, the next set of health is activated and takes any of the remainder of damage.", the Boss can theoretically still be killed in one hit. --Foxwarrior 07:47, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, but on average even a first level boss would need a 100+ point hit to kill it in one blow, and the players who do that must be just picking on the little guy they are way ahead of.--Teh Storm 21:05, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

A simple little guy with 10 BAB, power attack, true strike, a +3 scythe, and an auto-crit would do an 100+ point hit. Ghostwheel would probably harp on about how the Rogue can do more and better. --Foxwarrior 21:33, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, not to mention any stoning effect would leave these guy susceptible to several coup de graces. I can already envision one of my character capturing a cockatrice or fifteen and sicking them on a boss before entering the room myself to kill the crap out of him.--Teh Storm 21:41, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

So, I got the notice, now what do I need?--Teh Storm 18:06, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Hit Die, skills, fluff sections, the works. - TG Cid 20:47, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Fluff is just fluff to me, so this is about as fluffed as I want it to be. As for hit dice, what defines this class is that they DON'T get traditional hit dice, instead they gain a new set of hit points with each level of the class. In addition, I want the skills of this class to be determined by what they had before. While special abilities will not improve from the old class, skills and spells will.--Teh Storm 16:44, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, this is not 'incomplete' anymore. --Havvy 16:32, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Alignment

If I may, it's completely plausible for a boss to be a good person, you know. Some people enjoy playing the evil side, and there are still bosses to go against. keep an open mind, and always see things from both sides--Fear the Takashi Legend-Ruins, lowly mortal. 19:56, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

To be fair, the requirements does just say "must be a villain", which doesn't specify an alignment at all. Playing purely by that, you could definitely make a Good character with this prestige class. It's only the fluff text, which doesn't really matter anyway, that says they are evil. - TG Cid 23:29, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, just as there could be a party of paladins waging war on a orc boss, there could be those same orcs trying to save their people from absolute destruction at the hands of a paladin boss. "One nation's hero is another nation's villain."--Teh Storm 06:06, October 12, 2010 (UTC)

Me, I'm quite fond of "Well-Intentioned Extremist"-type villains... --Luigifan18 (talk) 01:36, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

I agree as I tend to play with moral ambiguity in my games as well. The best example of such an epic boss villain mentionned by Luigifan18 would be Nox, in the Wakfu cartoon. So many feels... *Spoilers* Thought it didn't matter if he destroyed the world, as he would later avoid its destruction by reverting time. Only could revert it fifteen minutes, after all... Goddamnit...*Feels* -HarrowedMind (talk) 02:50, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Most of the villains I write have moral ambiguity, as well. Mysto, Drathilox, and Green Horse are all great examples. --Luigifan18 (talk) 18:38, 11 November 2017 (MST)

PrC?

Would this not be an NPC class? -- Eiji-kun (talk) 23:40, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Eiji-kun (once again) on this one: you definitely wouldn't want a Player to have such power... -HarrowedMind (talk) 02:50, 14 November 2012 (UTC)

Note: Eiji-kun, if you were to be playing an evil character in an evil campaign, you would be a hero, actually. A villain hero, but a hero nonetheless. Major villain requires opposing the other players in some way. TheDarkest 04:51, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

Not so. Evil can fight evil just fine without being heroic at all. You're the "protagonist", not the "hero". -- Eiji-kun (talk) 05:08, 8 September 2013 (UTC)

...you've got me there. TheDarkest 07:25, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

(On that recent change reminder) Double bumpu for making this an NPC class again. It's what its made for. -- Eiji-kun (talk) 22:20, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Teh Storm even came to this wiki from wikia. You may as well adopt it if it's that important to you. - Tarkisflux ^Talk 23:24, 10 June 2014 (UTC)

Needs expanding

You should expand this to have the same benefits for manifesting (psionic), meldshaping, and initiating (martial adept/maneuvers) classes, as well as binding, at the very least. Perhaps also expand to other stuff like VFX, sacrifices, weaves, et cetera. Spellcasting is the core flexible class feature, yes, but there are many other classes that currently get screwed by taking levels in Boss, and I'm quite sure you don't want that. --Luigifan18 (talk) 10:23, 10 December 2017 (MST)